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| The Grindhouse Referee Book |
I like Lamentations of the Flame Princess (LotFP). So much so that once upon a time Raggi hired me to run his social media [1]. However the enthusiasm I had for the game has since died down to an ember but I still want it to do well. Trouble is Lamentations barely managed to crawl out of the abyss and it's still hanging precariously close to the edge. It needs an outstretched hand. And while I don't think Lamentations will ever reach the pinnacle of what it was, it can continue to put out quality products, like the DCC peeps. They just need to clear some stuff up and fix some things that need fixing.
So with all that said here's what I think needs to change for LotFP to survive in the current happy-fun-time landscape and maybe even thrive again.
So with all that said here's what I think needs to change for LotFP to survive in the current happy-fun-time landscape and maybe even thrive again.
- MisinformationThere is/was a whole cabal of publishers who threw fuel on LotFP's funeral pyre when the Zakpocalypse festered. LotFP once dominated the OSR scene and there was definitely some resentment. The fact that a edgy grimdark retro clone was raking in all the cash and snagging the big awards year after year really rubbed some jealous people the wrong way. This cabal continues to work behind the scenes and shit all over LotFP stuff wherever and whenever they can [2]. If LotFP wants to circumvent this at all, they need to rally the fanbase and denounce misinformation whenever it's seen. The outright lies I've witnessed, oh boy. I've have since given up doing this since I decided it wasn't worth the stress. Especially after that whole fanzine debacle [3].
- ControversiesOne of the reasons I got into LotFP was because it used to push people's buttons for the right reasons. Not because of an online difference of personalities or the disc horse that's popular nowadays but because books themselves were controversial. Better Than Any Man is one of my favorite rpg books of all time and was highly controversial at the time. Partly because it was a Free RPG day book that blew the other submissions out of the water and party because there's some really dark shit in there. Let's go back to that; the books are controversial, not people.
- Da RulesWhile Raggi never thought the core rules were super important, I think they are. Look at OSE, people wanted a skeleton d&d system to fill the LotFP void and Necrotic Gnome filled it. If LotFP had the quality modern day layout OSE does I would continue to use it as my base system. It's time to upgrade Raggi, hire a fancy expensive layout person and clean up the rules a bit. Visual aesthetic and ease of use are king now. Remember you're competing with computers and books need to be as useful at the table as a phone.
- The New Referee BookThis fucking thing. I vaguely remember hearing that it was going to be a huge book and mehhhh. Here's what you do instead. Get the old Grindhouse Ref book [4], get the old tutorial book slap them together and write a new foreword apologizing for not putting out a new ref book but it just ain't-gonna-happen. Then, add a shit load of random tables for the default 17th century that's "implied, add great new art, a new modern layout, mix them all together and put it in a beautiful hardcover leatherette book with a sweet title. BAM! New Ref book. Maybe add some material from the new draft as a appendix but not too much just the really good shit. I'd buy that.
- The Implied SettingI love the 17th century and the real world history. Most people don't. Look at the Mork Borg craze, people love that setting and it's literally just a map with like 5 thinly alluded to places. If you want to stick with the implied 17th century history setting you need a goddamn history book. A gameable one. Lay out out all the real world kingdoms and empires Game of Thrones styles with why they hate each other and why the century sucked to live in. Stat up famous NPCs like so and really do the history justice. OR make a generic map and just give the locations grimdark foreign sounding names [5].
- The ProductStop making books that are weird for the sake of being weird. For example, while I loved Big Puppet's premise I get the feeling it would be a pain to try and implement and explain. Back when I was running my LotFP campaigns what I really needed were A. The fucking history book I talked about earlier and B. decent dungeons. Where are all the goddamn dungeons? If I need treasure plundered from dangerous places on the fringes of society to level up classic d&d style where are they? Give me a entire book of short dungeons themed to 17th century history. A hidden dungeon under Stonehenge that houses alien mummies, an aztec temple with elite guardians that are trying to keep people out for their own safety. Fucking Scholomance a horror themed Hogwarts? Come on it writes itself. An ancient crumbling roman temple with secret sex crazed Aphrodite worshippers. MORE GOOD DUNGEONS, short ones and maybe one huge mega-dungeon. Fermentum is an ok start.
- New BloodThis one is going to be probably the most difficult but LotFP needs more good writers, preferably with a following already. Reach out, give them bags of money if you have to. OR Raggi needs to write heavy hitters again like Death Frost Doom or Better Than Any Man. Btw where is that hardcover version of BTAM?
- EMBRACE AND FOSTER THE 3RD PARTY STUFF
When someone makes something for your game it needs to be promoted to hell. That's what I tried to do when I ran the social media. People having enthusiasm for your game is key, again, look at the new players like Mork Borg and Necrotic Gnome. Huge support for their 3rd party stuff.
All these things (and more) need to be fixed before LotFP can stitch itself together and claw out of it's shallow grave. But what do you think? Do you agree or disagree with my observations? Or let me know what you think LotFP needs to change. Let me know in the comments.
[1] Check out my dead blog if you want to read me whine and bitch about why I quit.
[2] I'm only a quarter serious. Most people just parroted the same bullshit a few loud ones vomited out.
[3] Yes, I'm still salty about that lol.
[4] A fucking masterpiece DM's guide btw.
[5] Mork Borg is sweet, I'm just yanking their chain.
[3] Yes, I'm still salty about that lol.
[4] A fucking masterpiece DM's guide btw.
[5] Mork Borg is sweet, I'm just yanking their chain.
100% agree. But it feels like Raggi is dead set on destroying his own game. These are some of the best core rules I have seen in a while. The Vancian spells are fantastic, and I use them in my becmi game. But it seems that he wants to turn it into a hipster horror game with dice rolls to cast stranger and more perverse spells. It feels like there is too much focus on the gore-porn, shock for the sake of shock. It doesn't bother me, but it is immature and juvenile. Slapping an "18+" label on it just attracts fifteen year olds. I am embarrassed to tell people about the game, and I encourage them to go no further than the core rules. The core rules that Raggi hates, with the elves and Vancian spells he hates. I *had* wanted to write for it. But with the direction it is headed and the infamy it embraces, I am pretty much done. I now want to rewrite my material for use with OSE.
ReplyDeleteThat sucks but seems to be a very common sentiment. Thanks for sharing your views!
DeleteSucks as in the situation sucks, not your opinion lol.
DeleteI love original core rules
DeleteI'm not sure how much I agree with general thesis, but I have to say I really like that Scholomance idea... and the suggestion for more adventures/dungeons set firmly in the 17th century.
ReplyDeleteNew blood is the key, you know I'm doing my own lobbying behind the scenes. As for Rules & Magic, what would you change? IMO it's a pretty damn good core book to begin with.
ReplyDeleteI agree the Rules & Magic book is damn good but after personally using it for years it needs a modern layout upgrade.
DeleteI literally never understood why people consider LotFP to be "edgy". By that reasoning any person who is a metal fan and likes horror movies is edgy... There's shocking content for sure, but I feel like Raggi is being honest when he's saying that it is more to draw attention to specific subjects, rather than blatantly trying to be cool. But I guess people are too stubborn or scared to talk about certain issues and are too dismissive of Raggi as a publisher to try and understand him.
ReplyDeleteMajor dislike for Mork Borg btw, just can't get into the hype.
> By that reasoning any person who is a metal fan and likes horror movies is edgy.
DeleteWell, yes.
lol, if you like glam metal and A24 horror movies you're not edgy, if you like doom-drone and super-experimental horror shit you're not edgy... but that's not the aesthetic LotFP goes for and we all know it. LotFP is satanic black metal and schlocky torture porn, which is honestly about as edgy as edgy gets.
DeleteI like the visuals of Mork Borg but that's it.
DeleteReally good list. Reminds me that we're coming up to two years of drama now. I started playing like six months afterwards and it is sad that I need to admit that I felt estranged a long time for liking the game with the cool red-headed lady on the cover.
ReplyDeleteAddendum:
I find the comparison between Mörk Borg and Lotfp to be so reductive, as a fan of both games. Except for both to be falling under the umbrella-term "dark fantasy" they have nothing in common. One is a historic retroclone with horror themes underneath. The other is for beer & pretzels games in a pub (literally, that's the point).
Idk I've had some pretty beer and pretzel LotFP games too. But I do agree LotFP and Mork Borg cater to different audiences.
DeleteI agree with the suggestions, especially creating a default setting. When he started there was no setting but then Carcosa and a few others showed up so why not create a weird and unique 17th century? I'd love to see what Raggi came up with.
ReplyDeleteRaggi seems to want to stick with the 17th century history, if so we REALLY need that history book. But good news I heard someone was actually working on one so there you go.
DeleteWhere is that crabs-with-fists picture from and why don't I recognise it (dementia, probably)?
ReplyDeleteFrom Jim's home game. One of the players was impressed by the creature, so Jim decided it should be made an illustration out of.
DeleteI can see why!
DeleteAll things considered, I very much want to see LotFP recover and thrive over the next several years.
ReplyDeleteMe too. Here's hoping.
DeleteI tend to reskin the implied historical setting into a more fantastical one.
ReplyDeleteI agree that being weird for weird's sake can go too far. For instance I rarely use the super extreme / edgy stuff in the adventures. I think Towers Two is a lot better of a product for instance without the "DeathFuck" garbage.
As for the dungeons, feel free to use and fill any of these blank maps with that historical stuff. :D
https://samwise7rpg.blogspot.com/2020/12/free-dungeon-doodles-for-your-published.html?m=1
I think you make some good suggestions here. I've never ran an RPG company though so what do I know. Hehe.
I hope LotFP continues on, but it will probably dwindle to just the hardcore fanbase buying James' stuff.
Prob, but hopefully not.
DeleteI just now spend a half-hour justifying why I justify liking the core rules. In doing so, I just came to the revelation that it isn't worth it.
ReplyDeleteYou are worsening it to yourself. You don't have to justify it to anyone. If your players are cool with the game then that's grand, nothing else matters.
DeleteI have a reputation as an author and gameing philosopher to be concerned with. I have friends and contacts in the industry. And it is my own perception of self I am judging. It is like this. I only appreciate the core rules. That would include the unique takes on Clerics, Elves, and Vancian magic. Raggi has pretty much stated that these are the elements he hates and plans to get rid of. If so, all that is left is gore porn that is both disgusting and juvenile. That leaves nothing left for me to enjoy. So I am just out.
DeleteOSE to use, because it's such a clear recapitulation, but LotFP to read and think, because it bears the stamp of personality (whether you're okay with that personality is another conversation) & the summoning spell, encumbrance and exclusive Fighter AB.
ReplyDeleteYour LotFP-related posts are always informative. Thanks for sharing.
I believe you forgot two points that would immensely help.
ReplyDelete1. LotFP should nuke the toxic fanbase it collected during the last years. Because LotFP has an extremely toxic fanbase. I know, #NotAllLotFPFans, but there's a lot of them, and they make a lot of noise. You can be edgy and make edgy stuff without being a dick, and by keeping the trash out. LotFP built part of his initial fanbase also because he used to hire diverse people, payed them well, and they were happy working with him. But then shit happened, Raggi started to make one faux-pas after another, and here we are now.
2. Raggi should really hire someone that cleans up his public persona, helps him to build a better fanbase, and that stops him to write those posts about the fking freeze peach and "I would make literal Nazis work for me" stuff or those generally highly controversial things that made a LOT of people distance themselves with him during these last years. And that attracted the toxic fanbase of point 1.
Problem: he will NEVER do this, especially the second. He's just too naive, stubborn and can't see beyond his nose.
(And I don't think at all he's a bad person. I just thing he has some really naive ideals).
And so LotFP will die and people will just remember the brand as "that toxic edgelord OSR brand that empowered rapists and racists" instead of the good things it made before that.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Sounds about right.
DeleteExcept the fanbase part. The fanbase has been pretty chill as far as I can see. It's usually someone else instigating something.
DeleteOP betrays wishful thinking. The only racism, which was ironic, came from Kiel Chenier, self-cancelling wokeling. Rapists, plural is also stretching it. Lotfp is commonly associated with juvenile edginess and metal.
DeleteRaggi's mistake wanting to have his cake and eating it too. You cannot both be edgy and cultivate an audience of perpetually offended cat-ladies. Nuking his remaining fanbase in a vain attempt to placate the cancel culture crowd is likely to pay off as well as that usually does (i.e. not at all).
If James wants to make it in this cruel world he needs to do the following:
1. Setting book bitch (as Brackish already mentioned)
2. Rebuild a core pool of talented authors shitting out material
3. FGS make some modules that are halfway decent and rely on something other then gorgeous presentation and wacky ideas to sell
4. As much as it pains me to say so, the legacy of showmanship and provocative gesticulation is a part of Lotfp, and ditching it will probably hurt more then help.
5. Ditch the 2nd edition experimental core rules immediately before someone accidentally uses them and you split your fanbase. They are garbage.
There is obviously immense fondness for Raggi if you look at the responses to his hare-brained money raising schemes and the vast influx of people wanting to write for him after his latest MSG5 video so the problem is certainly not image. He pays well too, which is to his credit.